Enabling 480p in PAL games

[Paar86]

I have downloaded revision r296.

[megalomaniac]

where are you running the iso from?
SD Gecko, WASP/WKF/WODE, DVD disc, or other method???

[Paar86]

I'm running it through SD Gecko. I'll give it another try, it should work according to the compatibility list.

[megalomaniac]

are you reading the compatibility list differently than i am?
i see the list shows metroid prime 480p as blackscreen...
BTW, that compatibility list is out of date....




you do know there are issues with some titles thru SD Gecko right?
try from DVD and see if swiss can successfully run in 480p

[Paar86]

I'm pretty sure that I tried forcing 576p. I'll try it again when I get home. By the way the game booted fine through SD Gecko without forcing the progressive scan so it's safe to assume that the media used is not the problem.

Regarding Metroid Prime, read the note that's on the bottom of the list (Special cases). That's what I managed to get working - to force 480p when using 50 Hz mode. The note doesn't mention that the game runs 17% faster than normal, even though it does. It's not playable.

[novenary]

It will run faster because it expects to be running at 50fps if you select 50hz mode but it will actually run at 60hz. A lot of games use the framerate for timing.

[Paar86]

Now I get black screen when using both 480p and 576p in Swiss. It works when forcing the 480p in DIOS MIOS but the picture is deformed.

[Paar86]

I have partially good news. With the newest version of Nintendont (rev. 371) you can play the PAL version in 480p/60Hz! Why is that only partially good? Because it's not true 480p, it looks like it's 240p upscaled to 480p but even than the picture looks much better than 480i. I hope it will be possible to achieve true 480p someday.

[tueidj]

This is a gamecube forum, if you're using a wii you should have just said that at the beginning.
Devolution can force any game to progressive mode (576p for 50Hz mode or 480p for 60Hz mode).

[novenary]

This is a gamecube forum, if you're using a wii you should have just said that at the beginning.

^ This. Swiss is meant to be used on a GC and is not really supported on the Wii. It works because GC mode exists but things are expected to break.

[Paar86]

This is a gamecube forum, if you're using a wii you should have just said that at the beginning.
Devolution can force any game to progressive mode (576p for 50Hz mode or 480p for 60Hz mode).

I was using Gamecube. It's just because I had no luck with it I tried to use Wii.

Can devolution force true 480p in PAL games or is it "just" 240p doubled like in Nintendont?

The thing is I tried to force 480p in NTSC Metroid Prime 1 but the picture was 240p doubled even though the game supports true progressive scan. That led me to believe that some PAL games run in 240p even though they could be played in higher resolution. Is it some limitation of the force methods?

[tueidj]

It doesn't "force 480p in PAL games". It forces 480p instead of 480i or 576p instead of 576i. So if you told PAL Metroid Prime to use 60Hz mode you would get 480p otherwise 576p.

[theclaw]

I was using Gamecube. It's just because I had no luck with it I tried to use Wii.

Can devolution force true 480p in PAL games or is it "just" 240p doubled like in Nintendont?

The thing is I tried to force 480p in NTSC Metroid Prime 1 but the picture was 240p doubled even though the game supports true progressive scan. That led me to believe that some PAL games run in 240p even though they could be played in higher resolution. Is it some limitation of the force methods?

Forced 480p doesn't necessarily work on games that support it.
NTSC games without 480p that benefit from forcing are just less documented than PAL.

Only two licensed releases output 240p. The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition and Mega Man X Collection.
I'm not sure what else runs in 240p, besides games in retro collections, but the user never got to see their original format on a Gamecube.

[tueidj]

Forced 480p doesn't necessarily work on games that support it.

It does with Devolution.

Only two licensed releases output 240p. The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition and Mega Man X Collection.
I'm not sure what else runs in 240p, besides games in retro collections, but the user never got to see their original format on a Gamecube.

Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 uses 240p/288p for movies.

[theclaw]

Oh. I don't know much about how forcing video mode works, or the compatibility differences between methods of doing it.

The Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 info is new to me too, been years since I've played those games much.

[Diminuendo]

I have partially good news. With the newest version of Nintendont (rev. 371) you can play the PAL version in 480p/60Hz! Why is that only partially good? Because it's not true 480p, it looks like it's 240p upscaled to 480p but even than the picture looks much better than 480i. I hope it will be possible to achieve true 480p someday.

As long as you claim a gamecube game (other than Extrems GBI) is playing in 60hz progressive I'm just going to believe you don't have any idea what your doing. Interlaced games on the gamecube are 60hz or 50hz and progressive games are 30hz or 25hz. Claiming anything otherwise means you lack a fundamental understanding of how video modes work for the console.

Now I know we aren't meant to advocate piracy, but if you own the PAL game why don't you just download the NTSC version and play in 480p mode without all this stress? Don't get me wrong, piracy is wrong, but if you own a physical copy of a nearly entirely identical game to what your downloading I think the world will forgive you.

[tueidj]

No, progressive games are really 60Hz or 50Hz instead of 30Hz or 25Hz, that's the whole point.

[Diminuendo]

you have it backwards tueidj

[Extrems]

Interlaced games on the gamecube are 60hz or 50hz and progressive games are 30hz or 25hz. Claiming anything otherwise means you lack a fundamental understanding of how video modes work for the console.

You're the one lacking a fundamental understanding.

[novenary]

No, you do (@Diminuendo). The games (with a few exceptions) run at 50 or 60fps internally. Progressive scan enables you to see the full 50-60 frames instead of of alternating rows. It also reduces flicker on displays that do not support interlacing natively (which is the vast majority of modern LCD and plasma displays) on both full and half framerate games.

[Diminuendo]

Wait, seriously? Why would a console that renders 30fps to the vast majority of end users (non-componet cable owners) need to render every full frame twice rather than sample the same frame twice for each interlaced phaze? That seems like a waste of the consoles power, especally for Rev C consoles.

I guess I learned something.

[novenary]

It's the exact same thing on the Wii, and it's also the whole point of the component cable. The rev C GameCube is a result of the component cable not being popular enough back then (it was a little too early).

[theclaw]

Wait, seriously? Why would a console that renders 30fps to the vast majority of end users (non-componet cable owners) need to render every full frame twice rather than sample the same frame twice for each interlaced phaze? That seems like a waste of the consoles power, especally for Rev C consoles.

I guess I learned something.

If I understand this right:
In progressive mode running at 60fps, that outputs 60hz to the display, you'll see a full unique frame 60 times per second.
30fps games would be what samples each frame twice. (after all Nintendo didn't count on people owning 30hz TVs)

Nobody said every frame was rendered twice.

[Diminuendo]

I guess I was unclear what I meant;
in interlaced only half frames are displayed, hence two half frames make a full frame; this is what I meant by rendered twice